Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Video games/Sega/Review

E-123 Omega scale

I've been working on the Omega article lately and I was wondering if I could get a second appinion on whether it's gone past start class.Fairfieldfencer (talk) 12:43, 5 March 2008 (UTC)Fairfieldfencer

I'll add it to the new requests on our assessment page and take a look at it later. Redphoenix526 (Talk) 15:43, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Okay, here's what I've got for you on the article. Like with most of my standard assessments, I'll put what I think is good, what needs improvement and how to go about it, and my overall opinion. I'll also copy and paste it onto the discussion page for the article so other editors not associated with the project but can improve the article will pick up on it.

So let's start with what's good:

• The opening paragraph is large and comprehensive of the content of the article, and even has a reference.
• It looks like most of the bases have been covered on the content, and the article covers much information.

Okay, and now what needs improvement:

• This is the English Wikipedia, and reading a Japanese site for references can be straining to people who are not bilingual. Now, it can stay if no English equivalent can be found, but an English equivalent that is NOT machine translated is much preferred over the Japanese site. I've made that mistake before, so that's just a little piece of advice.
• Some of the sections are missing references completely. For these, citing the game manuals (and maybe citing them multiple times) can serve as a good source. Check out WP:REF and WP:CITET for more information on how to do this with a reference template, which makes life easier. Also, look for more references in general for the entire article, but especially for sections without any references at all, because this can be seen as original research and could be challenged and removed.

Done *Be careful about using too much plot regurgitation in the "Game appearances" section. See WP:PLOT for more information. Keep these sections short and sweet, without getting into too much rehashing. This also makes it easier to find sources for this information.

That said, here's my verdict: This article does not meet with what is defined as B-class by the standards of WP:SEGA/A (see the Quality Scale for more information on the standards). It remains a Start-class article because of the above problems. Hopefully, though, my assessment has given you some insight on how this article can be improved. If you want to have the article assessed again later, just put it back up under the new requests for assessment. If you have questions, comments, or anything else, you can contact me on my talk page or ask the project here on this page. Redphoenix526 (Talk) 16:42, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

I've shortened the video game sections and I've checked all the official Sonic sites but they don't display the needed content, as for extra references from manuals I can't find enough info as I only have the Sonic Heroes manual, (but hopefully I'll have the Sonic 06 game soon), which doesn't give me enough.Fairfieldfencer (talk) 12:41, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

It's a step in the right direction, but some of the sections just scream of original research. Yes, I know that most of this is factual information, having played the games myself, but you need more sources. Can you read Japanese, Fairfieldfencer? I'd like to review that source, though I can't read Japanese (I read Spanish instead). I'm going to put up some {{fact}} tags on some of the most important parts that I think need sourcing for you, so you know what to look for. Redphoenix526 (Talk) 18:32, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Unfortuately I can't read japanese, (unless it's been machine translated) I do however know that Doktor Wilhelm can speak japanese as he stated himself.Fairfieldfencer (talk) 18:35, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

I have? Urm, well I know enough to be offencive... (but that's about it)  Doktor  Wilhelm  16:03, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

That's some good Japanese to know, Doktor Wilhelm. But Fairfieldfencer, this Japanese source should really be straightened out. Is it a machine translation that's given you this source? Machine translations are definitely not good; I'll have to find where it says that in Wikipedia policy, but either way there's no way of knowing if the translation's perfectly accurate. Redphoenix526 (Talk) 18:03, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

Actually I don't go on that site, I went on there once and my computer came up with something about a virus so I don't go on there.Fairfieldfencer (talk) 18:13, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

Hmmm... maybe we should drop that site altogether then. I know it's been helpful for citations, but I don't think it's a good source if people can't read it and it causes problems on computers. Thoughts, anybody? Redphoenix526 (Talk) 20:24, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

Which site is that?  Doktor  Wilhelm  20:27, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

Sonic Channel.Fairfieldfencer (talk) 20:28, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

Oh, sonic.sega.jp is an official site, that's the rason why it's used as a citation...  Doktor  Wilhelm  20:38, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

Though it really doesn't help if no one can read it, that's all I'm saying. As I said, it can probably stay, but it's much better to have an English source. Redphoenix526 (Talk) 13:57, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

The official Europian Sonic site is www.sonic-city.com, but I'm afraid that it is down at the moment.  Doktor  Wilhelm  14:11, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

It's probably something to do with the vote so it should be back up by the 15th when the winner is announced. (By the way I've added a new image to the article).Fairfieldfencer (talk) 14:23, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

I have added more references by using the game cutscenes themselves thanks to youtube.Fairfieldfencer (talk) 13:49, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

Uh, I'm not sure using YouTube is a legitimate reference. Now, I can't be sure since I'm not experienced enough to know (I've been on Wikipedia since August 2007 and serously editing since January 2008), so I'd like to ask for help on this one.

I've have done most of the things you said, (minus a new site for references), So I was wondering if it's gone past start class now.Fairfieldfencer (talk) 10:44, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Well, uh, no, it hasn't. It's a lot better, and it's borderline Start-B class, but I'm going to say you need a few more citations first. The personality section needs citations. I'll go back and put more {{fact}} tags if I have to. But I'd say you'll have it soon, just keep working on it. Red Phoenix (Talk) 17:47, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

I've been wondering if I can you this as a source. Concept-E-123 Omega It's not an official site and some of the information seems like OR to me but mostly official. I was also wondering if the image is official as I'm not sure.Fairfieldfencer (talk) 09:00, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

FFF, this one's a tough call. First off, about the image, I don't think you would be able to pull it anyway, as the background is a large part of it and that's pretty hard to pull. It would be copyrighted anyway, as E-123 Omega is a copyrighted character and even a hand-drawn E-123 Omega would be copyrighted, so let's avoid the image for reasons of copyright. As for the information, well, there's something that makes this whole thing complicated. Read the text below the infobox on that page, in the fine print. There's a sentence that says, "All media and information on this site that is not an official source is inspired by raid Sega copyrights, but belong to Concept-Mobius.com." I don't know, it makes some of this seem like OR, but I guess we can always ask for help again if we can't come to a conclusion on this. Red Phoenix (Talk) 20:11, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

The mobius character profile is used on other articles shall I get rid of them.Fairfieldfencer (Talk) 19:57, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

Well, as I said, I'm not really sure what to do with this particular source. I think it would be best to remove them, but we may need to get another opinion (like that of Doktor Wilhelm or another project member). I recommend we do that first and then determine what to do here. Red Phoenix (Talk) 20:36, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

Anything I can do for E-123 Omega at the moment has been done. I'm going to wait until the Sonic City site comes back and copy the information from there, but if anyone knows a site that has information I could use please post it here. For the time being I'm going to concentrate on the Eggman's creations article I'm making.Fairfieldfencer (talk) 16:46, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Good luck. I layed down some more tags for the article today. Red Phoenix (Talk) 20:07, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

I've made alot more references for the article, (thanks to your tip about using the dialogue Red phoenix), and there are only 2 sections lacking references completely but I shall sort that out soon. So my question is has it gone past Start class.Fairfieldfencer (talk) 10:47, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Yep, looks a lot better. I've changed the tags to B-Class (except the Robotics tag, I'm not sure how things are done there so I didn't want to change the tag). Keep improving it. And see if you can find secondary sources. They're an absolute necessity if you want it to go higher than B-class.

What's your say in how I could get it to A-class. I've got 3 references I still have to put up all of them I can't access at the moment.Fairfieldfencer talk 15:32, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

A-Class? Let me tell you right now, you're a long way from A-Class. In order for me to give you approval of an A-Class rating, I would like to see work that is GA-quality. You can refer to the good article criteria for further information, or check out our only A-Class article, Sega Mega Drive. In reality, the A-Class rating is higher than GA, but we generally use it to give it our own little classification as being an excellent article. Basically, everything, and I mean everything, needs a citation, and it should look like a GA-class article (most articles approved for A-Class go on to be a good article within a couple of weeks and easily, too. Sega Mega Drive is an exception due to unseen reference problems, but those problems are fixed now). Red Phoenix ^{flame of life...protector of all...} 21:07, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Well what would say needs improvement to get it to GA. Nice sig by the way.Fairfieldfencer FFF talk 16:47, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Well, first off, the article must not have any major issues, or basically anything I or anyone else would tag. So everything needs to be cited (secondary sources are preferred), real world information needs to be added, the "Other Appearances" section should be formatted as prose instead of an embedded list, and so on. The prose should be written clearly, there should be reliable sources for most statements, and so on. Basically, the article should meet the criteria at WP:WIAGA. Try reading one of the project's GA articles listed on the project page (NOT Sonic the Hedgehog (character), that's an article that should be delisted due to its problems. It probably passed on an illegitimate assessment the first time.)

Speaking of which, FFF, would you like to team up with me to fix the Sonic the Hedgehog (character) article? It doesn't get that many edits, but as a project one objective is for us to get it to FA status. I suggest we base our structuring around Link (The Legend of Zelda), since that's another character article that is an FA. I've been busy with Crush 40 and Sega Mega Drive lately, trying to get them to GA (Crush 40's close, been at WP:GAN for over two weeks and no one's assessed it yet), but I really want to pick up on Sonic. I'd like to eventually see Sonic as an FA, Tails, Knuckles, Amy, and Shadow as GA's (as well as whatever else, if you can get Omega to GA, I'll be impressed), and just general improvement to all the Sonic character articles.

Thanks for the sig comment, by the way, the parts of the sig are from a quote that I have on my userpage that I wrote as part of a novel I've been writing for the better part of about four years as a side project. Red Phoenix ^{flame of life...protector of all...} 19:23, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Now I know I can help you there, being a Sonic fanatic I know practically everthing about him.Fairfieldfencer FFF talk 10:34, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

Red Phoenix something's gone wrong with the multiple ref for Sonic Channel. Could you take a look at it please as I'm new to this sort of thing.Fairfieldfencer FFF 08:25, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Hey, I just checked the other articles and all the Sonic Channel refs have the same problem.Fairfieldfencer FFF 09:14, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

I've managed to fix it. First off, the first time you use the reference, you don't put the slash in the ref name template. That's taken care of by the </ref> at the end. Also, I had to move the cite web out of the infobox and put it in the main text. My guess is something got changed in the coding. I'll start going back and fixing the references. Red Phoenix ^{flame of life...protector of all...} 13:38, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks RP, but I gotta ask you something; can you see the height, wieght and age of the characters underneath their images?Fairfieldfencer FFF 13:55, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Nope, sorry. I can't see them. Red Phoenix ^{flame of life...protector of all...} 15:09, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

I was afraid of that. Looks like that info can't be seen unless your editing the article. At first I thought it was your changing refs but the Chaotix and Cream the Rabbit pages, (which haven't been touched for ages) are suffering the same thing.Fairfieldfencer FFF 15:13, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

As I said, I think the coding got changed. What about the <br></br> pieces? Could they be screwing up the infoboxes? Red Phoenix ^{flame of life...protector of all...} 16:32, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Nope that's not it. When I took a look through history of one of the articles to see if someone's edit did this it never showed up. It was like it never existed which is very strange.Fairfieldfencer FFF 16:40, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Hmmm, I'll take a look later today. Red Phoenix ^{flame of life...protector of all...} 21:51, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

RP, I just thought maybe it's the thing around the character image that lists all the info. I mean poeple can stick info there and it doesn't appear, maybe we should ask someone like an admin or something to change it, (I mean if its happened with the Sonic articles its probably happened with other video game character articles).Fairfieldfencer FFF 16:12, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

I think it might be something to do with the inuniverse parameter. I recommend you contact the Video Games project on their talk page and ask what they know about it. Maybe they already are aware of it and know a solution. Red Phoenix ^{flame of life...protector of all...} 12:39, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

I've done as you said.Fairfieldfencer FFF 12:57, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

I'm glad to say its been sorted out. One of the users edited the Sonic template so things like age gender etc wouldn't appear, I'll be keeping a close eye on that template in future.Fairfieldfencer FFF 13:53, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

I thought you might want to know what the refs are so here you go:

1. Info from the Sonic City site for the personality section.

   Dialogue from the expert mode from Shadow the Hedgehog (video game) (Lava Shelter), for Shadow the Hedgehog.

   Dialogue from the expert mode for Shadow the Hedgehog (video game) (Mad Matrix) for Shadow the Hedgehog (section).

Fairfieldfencer FFF 16:41, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Ok, you've certainly got a good start. Now, probably the biggest hurdle you're going to have to overcome is real world information. For that, anything about Omega's creation, his reception by fans, etc would really help. Keep up the good work, you're really making headway. Red Phoenix ^{flame of life...protector of all...} 03:21, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

Has the article improved?Fairfieldfencer FFF 16:53, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

If help is needed with the Omega article, or any others, i'll be more than happy to help improve them.  Skeletal S.L.J.C.O.A.A.A.T.R.  01:54, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Sonic Scale

Okay new section made for the discussion.Fairfieldfencer FFF talk 10:39, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

I've put up some new fact tags for the article.Fairfieldfencer FFF talk 11:08, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

This might be helpful too. It's the GAR discussion. Red Phoenix ^{flame of life...protector of all...} 15:23, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

We could use the Sonic City, (Sonic profile), site when it's back for the game appearances section, as it lists all Sonic's game appearances.Fairfieldfencer FFF 15:34, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

Is it really necessary to list every game appearance by that? Granted, if we can cite it, then by all means it should stay. But it just seems a bit awkward. Red Phoenix ^{flame of life...protector of all...} 18:08, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

I just thought we could us it on the parts of the article that say, "Sonic has appeared in Sonic Heroes Shadow the Hedgehog etc", and that's one section with references that we don't have to worry about anymore.Fairfieldfencer FFF 18:21, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

It would be a big mistake to format it like that; that's called an embedded list. If we could get sourced description about most of the major games (like what Link (The Legend of Zelda) has, then we should have no problem raising it to FA. Red Phoenix ^{flame of life...protector of all...} 20:42, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

I do have an idea, though, if we want to make it a list in the article. We can use a sortable table. Red Phoenix ^{flame of life...protector of all...} 20:44, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

My First GA

Hey, I just got my first GA today, as part of this project! I managed to get Crush 40 to Good Article status! We've got another GA for the project, everyone. Red Phoenix ^{flame of life...protector of all...} 21:51, 20 April 2008 (UTC) As a little celebration and gift to the project members, I'd like to show everyone these userboxes I made if they would like to show their support for Crush 40 (lol I know I'm taking this too far, but I had these a while ago and I always wanted to break these out). The first one is {{User:Red Phoenix/C40}} and the second is {{User:Red Phoenix/C40/2}} User:Red Phoenix/C40 User:Red Phoenix/C40/2

RP, could you make a userbox for me in sky blue saying, "This user loves the Two Ronnies. And now it's good night from me. And it's good night from him." And congratulations on your first GA, I'm sure you'll get your second one with Sega Mega Drive.Fairfieldfencer FFF 10:04, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, sure, I could make that userbox. Got anything you want in the text for the left part of the box? Red Phoenix ^{flame of life...protector of all...} 12:26, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

Just put in the Two Ronnies please, and thank you very much.Fairfieldfencer FFF 12:40, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

Removed template

User:Magiciandude removed our Sega Project template from the Super Smash Bros. Brawl article. I told him to inform us on our talk page, but then he took back his discussion. Red Phoenix ^{flame of life...protector of all...} 12:32, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

Another project GA

Sega Mega Drive did manage to make GA... whew, that makes me feel better about passing it as an A-Class in the first place when it probably wasn't at the time. I also want to quickly thank X201 again for his kindness in awarding me the VG Barnstar. Red Phoenix ^{flame of life...protector of all...} 03:20, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

RP it hasn't been classed GA under the Sega Project I asked them to leave that for you.Fairfieldfencer FFF 09:46, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

It doesn't need to be. A-Class is higher than GA by the standards of WP:SEGA/A, and that is what it was previously assessed to be. Red Phoenix ^{flame of life...protector of all...} 23:20, 27 April 2008 (UTC)